As a member of the LDS Church I proudly declare my love and appreciation for the Book of Mormon. I have read the book many times (in both Spanish and English). It has enriched my life in many ways. I have seen the Book of Mormon change lives during my time as a missionary. In short, I believe the Book of Mormon is a valuable book of scripture that convinces the reader "that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God" as its title page states.
But I DO NOT believe the Book of Mormon is a historical record of an ancient people. Far from it.
I realize such a declaration will be hard for many devout Mormons to hear and understand. After all, we are taught since our days as Primary children that the Book of Mormon is BOTH history and scripture. To separate the two smells of blasphemy. I understand that perspective. As recently as a decade ago I espoused and defended such a belief. But my training as a student of history (I received a Bachelor of Arts in History in 2006 and a Master of Arts in History in 2008) persuaded me that such a belief is simply untenable.
It is not my intention to destroy faith or attack LDS beliefs, nor do I have any desire to belittle Brother Callister or his perspective. I simply disagree with his conclusions. In addition, I believe that insisting upon the absolute historical legitimacy of the Book of Mormon as a fundamental article of faith for any believing Latter-day Saint can be potentially destructive to those who do not see the world on such all or nothing terms.
In my opinion, Mormonism should be a "big tent" faith. We should make room for those who do not share the absolutist mentality that seems to permeate mainstream Mormon thought. As President Deiter F. Uchtdorf stated in a 2013 General Conference talk:
If you could see into our hearts, you would probably find that you fit in better than you suppose. You might be surprised to find that we have yearnings and struggles and hopes similar to yours. Your background or upbringing might seem different from what you perceive in many Latter-day Saints, but that could be a blessing. Brothers and sisters, dear friends, we need your unique talents and perspectives. The diversity of persons and peoples all around the globe is a strength of this church.
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If these are your desires, then regardless of your circumstances, your personal history, or the strength of your testimony, there is room for you in this church. Come, join with us!I say all of this as a disclaimer to the reader. If you are of the opinion that the Book of Mormon is an absolute historical account of a real people then what follows probably isn't for you. If, however, you have a more nuanced view of many Mormon truth claims or have struggled with certain aspects of Mormon history/doctrine, particularly as they relate to the BoM, then I invite you to keep reading. My intention is, as President Uchtdorf states in the quote above, "to [make] room for you in this church." You do NOT have to share Brother Callister's perspective in order to call yourself a Mormon!
So, without further delay, I offer my rebuttal to Brother Callister's General Conference talk on the Book of Mormon (his full talk can be found by clicking here). I have copied Brother Callister's comments in blue below with my subsequent rebuttal to those claims.
Enjoy!
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Brother Callister opens with his first assertion:
Claim #1: First, the critics must explain how Joseph Smith, a 23-year-old farm boy with limited education, created a book with hundreds of unique names and places, as well as detailed stories and events. Accordingly, many critics propose that he was a creative genius who relied upon numerous books and other local resources to create the historical content of the Book of Mormon. But contrary to their assertion, there is not a solitary witness who claims to have seen Joseph with any of these alleged resources before the translation began.Let me begin by stating that the people whom Brother Callister labels as "critics" are, by and large, professional historians, archaeologists, linguists, botanists, geneticists, anthropologists, etc. who comprise the overwhelming majority consensus of the scholarly world as it relates to the historicity of the BoM. Based on the research in their respective fields of expertise, the overwhelming majority of these same "critics" have concluded that the BoM is not a historical document. Brother Callister's generic label of "critics" makes light of the sincere, professional study that many have given to the historicity of the BoM.
Even if this argument were true, it is woefully insufficient to explain the Book of Mormon’s existence. One must also answer the question: how did Joseph read all of these alleged resources, winnow out the irrelevant, keep the intricate facts straight as to who was in what place and when, and then dictate it by perfect memory?
But let us dive into the specific arguments Callister makes. He begins by appealing to a common claim made by Mormon apologists which in a nutshell states, "Joseph Smith was an ignorant farm boy who was too uneducated to possibly have created the Book of Mormon." This assertion is not only false but is also irrelevant. It assumes that the only possible way to become sufficiently educated is through formal schooling (19th century formal schooling, BTW). This assertion is baseless since we know of many intelligent figures from the 19th century who had little to no formal schooling. For example:
Mary Shelley, author of Frankenstein: 6 months of formal schooling.
Abraham Lincoln (before law school): 1 year of formal schooling (typical of the era).
Walt Whitman, renowned poet: 3 years of formal schooling.
Mark Twain, author of Huckleberry Finn: 4 years of formal schooling
Herman Melville, author of Moby Dick: 5 years of formal schooling
James J. Strang, Mormon leader and author of numerous books (one he claimed to translate from gold plates): 6 months of formal schooling.
And there are MANY other examples.
As for Joseph's imaginative abilities, I would simply refer the reader to the words of Joseph's own mother, Lucy Smith, who stated of her son:
In the course of our evening conversations Joseph would give us some of the most amusing recitals which could be imagined he would describe the ancient inhabitants of this continent their dress their manner of traveling the animals which they rode The cities that were built by them the structure of their buildings with every particular of their mode of warfare their religious worship-as particularly as though he had spent his life with them.As for the "alleged resources" Brother Callister references, I will both agree and disagree. I side with Callister's rejection of sources like "View of the Hebrews" and "The Great War" but disagree when he states "not a solitary witness" saw him with any source material. Case in point, at least 25% of the BoM's text is either a direct or nearly direct copy of Biblical texts, to include a number of significant King James errors that are unique to those editions. One has to wonder why those same errors would appear in a supposedly ancient record like the BoM? In addition, there were numerous witness accounts of Joseph Smith devoting serious time and study to the Bible. Heck, Smith would eventually complete his own "translation" of the Bible. How can anyone argue that he wasn't familiar with Biblical texts? When speaking of his own education and study of the Bible, Joseph Smith himself stated:
At about the age of twelve years my mind became seriously impressed with regard to all the important concerns for the welfare of my immortal soul, which led me to searching the scriptures believing as I was taught, that they contained the world of God, thus applying myself to them...thus from the age of twelve to fifteen I pondered many things in my heard concerning the situation of the world of mankind the contentions and divisions the wickedness and abominations and the darkness which pervaded the minds of mankind my mind became exceedingly distressed for I became convinced of my sins and by searching the scriptures I found that mankind did not come unto the Lord but they had apostatized from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament and I felt to mourn for my own sins and for the sins of the world.These are not the musings of some ignorant hick farmer but the mind of a deep thinker who devoted himself to intense study, particularly intense Bible study. At a very young age Joseph Smith had developed a true understanding of Christian scriptures and had arrived at many of the same conclusions as Martin Luther, John Calvin and other prominent thinkers of the Protestant Reformation. And we are seriously going to continue to label this man as "uneducated" or "ignorant?"
This comment, probably more than any other, reveals how little Brother Callister understands about the history of 19th century religious America. The fact of the matter is most of Joseph's teachings, along with most of the teachings found in the Book of Mormon, reflect exactly what was being preached in 19th century America by Christians of various denominations.Claim #2: How did Joseph produce a book that radiates with the Spirit, and where did he get such profound doctrine, much of which clarifies or contradicts the Christian beliefs of his time? For example, the Book of Mormon teaches, contrary to most Christian beliefs, that the Fall of Adam was a positive step forward. It reveals the covenants made at baptism, which are not addressed in the Bible.In addition, one might ask: where did Joseph get the powerful insight that because of Christ’s Atonement, He can not only cleanse us but also perfect us? Where did he get the stunning sermon on faith in Alma 32? Or King Benjamin’s sermon on the Savior’s Atonement, perhaps the most remarkable sermon on this subject in all scripture? Or the allegory of the olive tree with all its complexity and doctrinal richness?
Joseph Smith grew up smack dab in the middle of what Preacher Charles Finney call "the Burned Over District," due to the extraordinary (even for the Second Great Awakening) religious fervor that captivated much of western New York. Large camp meeting revivals were a common occurrence throughout the region. The revivals were so popular that it wasn't uncommon for thousands to gather in an open area where they could pitch tents with their door facing the preacher, so they could remain inside the shelter while they heard the message. Singing, worship and dramatic public confessions to Christ were common throughout the camp. Oftentimes the revivals were so large that the preachers found it necessary to construct large wooden platforms so the speaker could be seen and heard by the large crowd. The pastors would even ask that their sermons be written down so others (either not in attendance or too far away to hear) could benefit from the message.The aforementioned description should ring familiar to anyone who has read the King Benjamin account in the BoM. What Callister calls "the most remarkable sermon" on Christ's atonement is also the best example of 19th century Evangelical fervor finding its way into a supposedly ancient record. See for yourself. From Mosiah, chapter 2 (the beginning of King Benjamin's address):
6 And they pitched their tents round about the temple, every man having his tent with the door thereof towards the temple, that thereby they might remain in their tents and hear the words which king Benjamin should speak unto them;7 For the multitude being so great that king Benjamin could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, therefore he caused a tower to be erected, that thereby his people might hear the words which he should speak unto them.
8 And it came to pass that he began to speak to his people from the tower; and they could not all hear his words because of the greatness of the multitude; therefore he caused that the words which he spake should be written and sent forth among those that were not under the sound of his voice, that they might also receive his words.
*Comparing the artistic representations of 19th century revival camp meetings (right and left) with the King Benjamin sermon found in the Book of Mormon (below).In addition to these similarities, it is worth pointing out how in common the teachings of the BoM are with the sermons/messages being taught in 19th century frontier America by Christians of all types. For example, John Wesley's famous sermon on the Trinity bears many striking similarities to what became Joseph Smith's evolving doctrine on the Trinity (and yes, that doctrine did evolve). It also illustrates just how common these types of issues were in 19th century America. Preachers like Charles Finney, George Whitefield, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards and MANY others were already dissecting the very issues Joseph Smith would wrestle with in his own lifetime. My guess is Callister is simply more familiar with Joseph's take on the matter than he is with these other theologians.
The part in which Callister mentions Adam and Eve is unique. I will give him that. I have long argued that the most simple yet beautiful teaching in the Book of Mormon (and my favorite BoM verse) is 2 Nephi 2:25, which states, "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." Yet this verse, though beautifully simple and profound, does not necessarily negate the critics. There is ample evidence to prove FAR beyond a reasonable doubt that the Adam and Eve story is just that: a story. Genetics, archaeology, etc. have conclusively shown that humans originated LONG before the Adam and Eve story. Having said that, I do concede that Joseph's take on Adam and Eve is unique and quite appealing to that of traditional Christians.
Claim #3: If Joseph were not a prophet, then in order to account for these and many other remarkable doctrinal insights, the critics must make the argument that he was also a theological genius. But if that were the case, one might ask: why was Joseph the only one in the 1,800 years following Christ’s ministry to produce such a breadth of unique and clarifying doctrines? Because it was revelation, not brilliance, that was the source of this book.He was a theological genius, Brother Callister, but no, he wasn't "the only one in the 1800 years after Christ" to produce such "unique and clarifying doctrines." Far from it. Perhaps Brother Callister has never heard of Polycarp, St. Clement, Augustine of Hippo, Athanasius of Alexandria, St. Jerome, Thomas Aquinas, John Milton, Francis if Assisi, John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, Richard Hooker, Jonathan Edwards, John Wesley, George Whitefield, Ellen White and MANY others. I'm not suggesting that Joseph Smith didn't make real and dramatic contributions to Christianity (he absolutely did) but to say that Joseph was "the only one in the 1800 years following Christ's ministry to produce such a breadth of unique and clarifying doctrines" is WOEFULLY incorrect and negates the many incredible contributions (equal to or greater than Smith himself) made by many others.
Claim #4: To explain the Book of Mormon’s existence, the critics must also make the claim that Joseph was a naturally gifted writer at age 23. Otherwise, how did he interweave scores of names, places, and events into a harmonious whole without inconsistencies? How did he pen detailed war strategies, compose eloquent sermons, and coin phrases that are highlighted, memorized, quoted, and placed on refrigerator doors by millions of people, phrases such as, “When ye are in the service of your fellow beings ye are only in the service of your God” (Mosiah 2:17) or “Men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:25). These are messages with a heartbeat—messages that live and breathe and inspire. To suggest that Joseph Smith at age 23 possessed the skills necessary to write this monumental work in a single draft in approximately 65 working days is simply counter to the realities of life.How did J.R.R. Tolkien, author of The Lord of the Rings, create such a complex story with hundreds of characters, geographic locations, plot twists and even an elvish language? How did George Lucas, creator of Star Wars, interweave scores of names, places and events into a harmonious whole without inconsistencies? How did Gene Roddenberry, creator of Star Trek, pen detailed war strategies, compose eloquent dialogues for Captain Kirk and Spock and coin phrases that are highlighted, memorized and quoted ("Live long and prosper")? How did Walt Disney come up with his ingenious creations? How did Mary Shelley, author of Frankenstein (already mentioned earlier) come up with her story by age 19? How did Helen Keller author her first autobiography, while blind and deaf, at the age of 22? How did S.E. Hinton create her novel, The Outsiders at age 18? How did Stephen Crane write The Red Badge of Courage at age 23? How did Jack London write The Call of the Wild at age 27? How did Ken Kesey write One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest at age 26? How did Douglas Adams write The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at age 27? How did Charles Dickens write The Pickwick Papers at age 25? How did Jane Austen write Sense and Sensibility at age 19? How did F. Scott Fitzgerald write This Side of Paradise at age 23? How did Ernest Hemingway write The Sun Also Rises at age 26? How did J.K. Rowling create her initial drafts and story lines for what would become Harry Potter at age 24? The answer is found in the creative minds of humanity. Our ability to dream and imagine is one of the most amazing and impressive qualities of being human. The following video clip illustrates how easy it is for all of us to believe that a holy book couldn't possibly be written by the hand of man:
As for the claim that Joseph Smith wrote the BoM in 65 working days, I will refer the reader to the
numerous refutations of this claim that can be found from a simple search (you can find a few here, here, here and here).
Claim #5 Even if one accepts all of the foregoing arguments, dubious as they may be, the critics still face another looming obstacle. Joseph claimed that the Book of Mormon was written on golden plates. This claim received unrelenting criticism in his day—for “everyone” knew that ancient histories were written on papyrus or parchment, until years later, when metal plates with ancient writings were discovered. In addition, the critics claimed that the use of cement, as described in the Book of Mormon, was beyond the technical expertise of these early Americans—until cement structures were found in ancient America. How do the critics now account for these and similar unlikely discoveries? Joseph, you see, must also have been a very, very lucky guesser. Somehow, in spite of all the odds against him, against all existing scientific and academic knowledge, he guessed right when all the others were wrong.I don't think Callister realizes that the gold plates argument STILL receives criticism even today. Have golden plates from antiquity been found with writing on them? Yes, but that is only half the story. The plates we do have from ancient times are rarely made of gold (since gold was incredibly valuable). In addition, these ancient plates are usually few in number (again, since gold was quite valuable). Usually there would be a plate or two, but to have a golden record from antiquity that contained a history which would eventually yield over 500 pages of English text is simply unprecedented. Also keep in mind that gold, though quite heavy, is also a soft metal. If you wanted to preserve a record for a long time then writing on gold would not be the best choice, since the weight of gold (combined with softness of the metal) would, over time, press all engravings flat, leaving nothing but flat gold behind.
Simply put, the idea of a mass collection of gold plates being used to preserve a very lengthy ancient text is without historical precedent. And even if we were to concede Callister's claim, one must ask why Joseph Smith didn't reference the golden plates during the translation process of the BoM but instead simply looked at a seer stone he placed in a hat (the plates oftentimes not even being in the same room). Even the church's own published essay on the translation of the Book of Mormon confirms that Joseph used a seer stone and not the plates. And what do we make of the fact that "reformed Egyptian" or something of the like has never been discovered?
Yes, the ancient Maya used cement, which I suppose leads Callister to believe the BoM story took place in Mezoamerica? And even if we concede his point about cement, I question why Callister omitted mentioning the plethora of other archaeological and historical problems surrounding the BoM. For instance, how do we explain the complete lack of evidence for swine, horses, wheat, barley, silk and cattle (all of which are referenced in the BoM)? Why have we yet to find any of the metal swords from the numerous battles (some numbering in the thousands if not millions) yet archaeologists regularly make such discoveries in Europe. Where are the chariots? The wheels? The Nephite coinage? The references to Native peoples following a 7-day week calendar? Or as renowned archaeologists Michael Coe has aptly pointed out, what we would expect to find in an ancient American record (references to items like potatoes, tomatoes, corn, buffalo, etc.) are nowhere in the BoM, whereas what we would NOT expect to find (references to cattle, horses, wheat, chariots, etc.) are referenced many times in the BoM. Thomas Ferguson, an LDS member who was funded by the church to conduct archaeological research has stated, "The first myth we need to eliminate is that Book of Mormon archaeology exists...I should say -- what is in the ground will never conform to what is in the book." Both the National Geographic Society and the Smithsonian Institution Department of Anthropology have gone on record stating there is no historical, scientific or archaeological evidence to support the historicity of the BoM.
I guess Joseph wasn't a "lucky guesser" after all.
Claim #6: One of my good and bright friends left the Church for a time. He recently wrote to me of his return: “Initially, I wanted the Book of Mormon to be proven to me historically, geographically, linguistically, and culturally. But when I changed my focus to what it teaches about the gospel of Jesus Christ and His saving mission, I began to gain a testimony of its truthfulness. One day while reading the Book of Mormon in my room, I paused, knelt down, and gave a heartfelt prayer and felt resoundingly that Heavenly Father whispered to my spirit that the Church and the Book of Mormon were definitely true. My three-and-a-half-year period of re-investigating the Church led me back wholeheartedly and convincingly to its truthfulness.”This claim is a tough one because fundamentally I agree with what Callister is trying to say here. The BoM IS an inspiring record that teaches of Jesus Christ and his mission as the Savior of mankind. Callister won't receive any criticism from me on this. Where I think he goes wrong is in quoting his friend who stated, "I wanted the BoM to be proven...but when I changed my focus to what it teaches about the gospel of Jesus Christ...I began to gain a testimony." Brother Callister, why couldn't your talk simply focus on that? You just spent the first 8 minutes of your sermon trying to prove (historically, geographically, linguistically, etc.) how the BoM is true, only to reference your friend who ultimately gained a testimony by ignoring such things. Why can't that be the central argument of the Book of Mormon's value? President Russell M. Nelson, in the same General Conference, gave a sermon on the BoM that almost exclusively focused on the book's spiritual value/significance. Why muddy the waters with conjecture and highly questionable "evidence" that is rejected by the overwhelming majority of the scholastic world?
Speaking personally, I cannot embrace the BoM as being "true" if we are to rely on history, science, etc. The evidence is simply overwhelming to the contrary. If, however, we can say the BoM is "true" based on its religious teachings and its emphasis on Jesus' divine role then I am 100% behind such a claim, but we cannot have it both ways.
Why do I care so much about making this distinction? Two reasons:
1.) We need to recognize that the study of scripture and the study of history, science, etc. are VERY different pursuits. They are rarely if ever tied together. Sure, scripture may occasionally bleed over into history or science but usually this is an exception to the rule. Just as a wall separating church from state (with occasional bleed-over) is necessary for society, so is a wall between scripture and academia a necessity. Scripture is terribly equipped to take the place of history, science, etc., just as history/science will never be able to do the job of scripture. When we feel the need to link these separate spheres in order to add legitimacy to the claims of religion we do ourselves a terrible disservice.
Which brings me to my second reason.
2.) The increasing number of people who discover troubling material that discredits many truth claims of the church are not helped when leaders insist on perpetuating the same worn out, disproved assertions, like the BoM being an absolute historical record. When we force members to accept or reject the whole without looking at things objectively we place ourselves in a tough spot. Instead of pretending to be historians and archaeologists, I believe our leadership is most successful when they act like pastors and theologians.
The BoM's strength lies in its knowable spiritual teachings, not its unknowable physical geography. The BoM is more sermon than history, more performance than proof. It relies more on inspiration than evidence. It's a sermon as opposed to a record. It mirrors Joseph Smith and his time more than it sheds light on Nephites/Lamanites and antiquity.
In conclusion, I completely agree with Brother Callister on one issue: the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be: "a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible." Where I disagree is when Brother Callister attempts to make the BoM a record of history. It is not. To my fellow Mormons who find this declaration difficult to digest consider the following:
The Bible is full of pseudepigraphic (records attributed to ancient prophets but not actually written by ancient prophets) books such as Genesis, Exodus, etc. which are full of stories lacking any historical veracity. Virtually no scholars affirm the legitimacy of Adam and Eve, the Noah story, the Exodus story, the story of Job and many others. Even Jesus taught in parables. If we are able to glean moral life lessons from obvious Bible fables why can't we do the same with the Book of Mormon? Is the Book of Mormon's value really that dependent upon its historical veracity? When asked about this very issue, Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles stated:
If someone can find something in the Book of Mormon, anything that they love or respond to or find dear, I applaud that and say more power to you. That's what I find, too. And that should not in any way discount somebody's liking a passage here or a passage there or the whole idea of the book...So if anyone tells you it's wrong to not believe in the historicity of the BoM tell them to take the matter up with Elder Holland! Ultimately this is a personal question and I am happy to let each person decide for him/herself. For me, the evidence is quite clear; the Book of Mormon is scripture but NOT historical. Regardless of how you choose to answer, it is my hope that Mormonism can be that "big tent" faith where a diversity of opinion on this and other issues are free and welcomed. After all, that is the religion Joseph Smith himself envisioned...
I think you'd be as aware as I am that that we have many people who are members of the church who do not have some burning conviction as to its origins, who have some other feeling about it that is not as committed to foundational statements and the premises of Mormonism. But we're not going to invite somebody out of the church over that any more than we would anything else about degrees of belief or steps of hope or steps of conviction...We would say: "This is the way I see it, and this is the faith I have; this is the foundation on which I'm going forward. If I can help you work toward that I'd be glad to, but I don't love you less; I don't distance you more; I don't say you're unacceptable to me as a person or even as a Latter-day Saint if you can't make that step or move to the beat of that drum."
...or so the critics claim...







2 comments:
Thank you Brad Hart for this post. I have been struggling for several years with many issues surrounding the historical aspect of the Book of Mormon, the translation process, the First Vision, and MUCH more. The essays from the Church compounded my confusion and I have been in a fog of faith. I, like you
find great inspiration in the Book of Mormon. But, I have felt that I could not find a way to navigate my spiritual journey when the expectation of LDS membership mandated an absolute knowledge of the truth of the Book of Mormon.
I personally love the stories in the Book of Mormon. I do not believe in the historical truth of the stories but find them so uplifting and comforting. I can attest to the fact that the Book of Mormon has helped me to know, love and follow Jesus. I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon almost on a daily basis and consider them to be inspired of God.
Because I cannot testify that the Book of Mormon is true, I have felt that I was a substandard member of the LDS church. I have avoided Testimony meetings where I hear almost every person bearing fervent and heart-felt declarations of their personal knowledge of the "Truth of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon". I have spent years studying the same scriptures, attending the same church and yet I have had no such revelations. Instead of absolute truth, my heart has been touched with the feeling of "goodness". I believe the LDS church to be so "good" but not "true."
I cannot tell you how much relief I have felt after reading your post. I think I can finally reconcile my feelings and realize I am not a second class member because of my beliefs. The all or nothing mentality is not ever going to be part of my worship. Thank you for including the words of Elder Holland in your post. I will read his entire talk before I tackle watching Elder Callister's talk.
I like your idea of the "big tent" where ALL can feel valued and free to worship and come unto Christ and follow Him.
This post really is insightful. I have been struggling with questions of history for almost 20 years, enough that it led to my leaving the church from a membership standpoint. However, I still regularly attend (I am quite active in attendance), I read the scriptures daily and listen to conference regularly. I decided about a year ago that the church is helpful on my spiritual quest, regardless of whether it is all FACT and TRUE. I find that The Book of Mormon is inspired and yet I have not been able to wrap my head around the history challenges without doing MAJOR mental gymnastics, like imagining the possibility of alternate quantum realities where the Book of Mormon may have happened or something equally improbable. I know the church is an insired organization and yet I can say the same for other organizations. I really love the Book of Mormon and have read it close to 40 times. Anyway, what I am trying to say in a rambling way is that I am grateful for your post. It helped me and it is helping me resolve two very distinct ideas and helping me overcome my initial reaction to Tad Callister's talk, which was not positive because I thought to myself, what about EVERYTHING ELSE? Thanks again.
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